張建敏：中美過(guò)去靠“求同存異”走到一起，今天仍是如此

作者 :中華軍事 2024-02-04 08:12:31 圍觀 : 次評(píng)論

（編者按）1月24日，美國(guó)加州聯(lián)邦俱樂(lè)部亞太事務(wù)主席卡利迪普博士，邀請(qǐng)中國(guó)駐舊金山總領(lǐng)事張建敏，就中美元首舊金山會(huì)晤、中美關(guān)系、加州角色、綠色發(fā)展、人文交流和舊金山APEC等話題，進(jìn)行爐邊對(duì)話。

張建敏指出，中美關(guān)系出現(xiàn)任何緊張情形，可能對(duì)全球經(jīng)濟(jì)帶來(lái)至少2%的負(fù)增長(zhǎng)。此時(shí)此刻，中美需要合作，來(lái)恢復(fù)全球經(jīng)濟(jì)增長(zhǎng)。中國(guó)過(guò)去靠“求同存異”走到一起，今天仍是如此。

加州聯(lián)邦俱樂(lè)部成立于1903年，是美國(guó)歷史最悠久、規(guī)模最大的公共事務(wù)論壇之一。
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北京對(duì)話和東方軍事受權(quán)翻譯和獨(dú)家發(fā)布中文如下：

（翻譯：李澤西，核譯：韓樺）

卡利迪普：自古以來(lái)，中國(guó)就一直在世界歷史上扮演著舉足輕重的角色。自華夏文明于黃河邊誕生以來(lái)，中國(guó)就一直吸引著世界的想象力。當(dāng)代中國(guó)的崛起尤為驚人，在近代史上可謂絕無(wú)僅有：中國(guó)超過(guò)8億人擺脫了貧困，這占全球原貧困人口的75%。1990年，中國(guó)75%的人口生活在農(nóng)村地區(qū)；現(xiàn)在，75%的人生活在城市。

還有一個(gè)驚人的數(shù)字：在2010年至2013年間，中國(guó)澆筑的混凝土量比美國(guó)在整個(gè)20世紀(jì)澆筑的混凝土量還要多，這太不可思議了。除了建筑領(lǐng)域，中國(guó)在其他行業(yè)也取得驚人成就：正當(dāng)加州在放棄對(duì)可再生能源的補(bǔ)貼時(shí)，中國(guó)卻在向前推進(jìn)，全球電動(dòng)汽車(chē)50%的產(chǎn)能和市場(chǎng)都在中國(guó)，全球太陽(yáng)能和風(fēng)能50%的產(chǎn)能和市場(chǎng)也在中國(guó)。

然而，未來(lái)仍有挑戰(zhàn)。中國(guó)正在擺脫長(zhǎng)時(shí)間的新冠疫情封控后果，現(xiàn)在的問(wèn)題是，這對(duì)中國(guó)經(jīng)濟(jì)產(chǎn)生了什么影響？與此同時(shí)，中國(guó)人口首次不增反減，人口正在老齡化，這又對(duì)中國(guó)產(chǎn)生怎樣的影響？這些情況又將如何波及影響世界其他地區(qū)、美國(guó)和我們所在的加利福尼亞州？

因此，我們非常高興和榮幸，張建敏大使同意向我們介紹，他認(rèn)為中國(guó)將如何應(yīng)對(duì)這些挑戰(zhàn)。張大使，歡迎來(lái)到加州聯(lián)邦俱樂(lè)部。請(qǐng)向我們介紹一下您自己，以及您是如何走到今天這一崗位的。

張建敏：謝謝你的熱烈歡迎。也感謝現(xiàn)場(chǎng)和線上觀看的加州聯(lián)邦俱樂(lè)部會(huì)員們，感謝你們對(duì)中國(guó)和中國(guó)文化的關(guān)注。首先，請(qǐng)?jiān)试S我向你們致以龍年春節(jié)的美好祝愿。這是一個(gè)非常吉祥的年份，希望它能給我們所有人帶來(lái)好運(yùn)。

就我本人而言，我擔(dān)任中國(guó)駐舊金山總領(lǐng)事已有一年零八個(gè)月。在此之前，我在中國(guó)駐捷克大使任上工作了3年半。我于1990年加入中國(guó)外交部。1994年我首次到訪美國(guó)。2009年至2011年，我在中國(guó)駐華盛頓大使館工作過(guò)。

張建敏總領(lǐng)事與加州聯(lián)邦俱樂(lè)部亞太事務(wù)主席卡利迪普舉行爐邊談話圖自：中國(guó)駐舊金山總領(lǐng)事館

在中國(guó)外交部工作期間，我有幸參加了許多重要的訪問(wèn)和討論。因此，我希望自己能利用好這些經(jīng)驗(yàn)，為促進(jìn)中美兩國(guó)，尤其是中國(guó)和加利福尼亞州之間的相互了解和友誼做好工作。

卡利迪普：在加州期間，有什么令你感到驚訝的嗎？你對(duì)加州和西海岸有什么新認(rèn)識(shí)？

張建敏：我感覺(jué)很幸運(yùn)，因?yàn)槊绹?guó)西海岸與中國(guó)的來(lái)往與合作歷史悠久。這里最近舉辦了亞太經(jīng)合組織（APEC）峰會(huì)，有著如此優(yōu)秀、勤勞的華人社區(qū)，為這一地區(qū)的繁榮做出了重要貢獻(xiàn)。

自從我來(lái)到這里，加州和中國(guó)之間的合作交流讓我深受鼓舞。例如，我們即將迎來(lái)龍年春節(jié)。2022年9月，紐森州長(zhǎng)簽署法律，將春節(jié)定為公共假日，這是美國(guó)第一個(gè)將春節(jié)定為公共假日的州。您剛才在開(kāi)場(chǎng)白中提到了新冠疫情，紐森州長(zhǎng)也是疫情過(guò)后第一位訪華的美國(guó)州長(zhǎng)，訪問(wèn)圍繞氣候變化。我認(rèn)為他的訪問(wèn)非常成功。

美國(guó)西海岸曾舉辦過(guò)兩屆亞太經(jīng)合組織峰會(huì)。第一屆亞太經(jīng)合組織峰會(huì)于1993年在西雅圖舉行，而去年，舊金山也非常成功地主辦了亞太經(jīng)合組織峰會(huì)；兩次會(huì)議，中國(guó)國(guó)家主席都出席了。在舊金山，兩國(guó)元首舉行了一次非常成功的峰會(huì)，使人們對(duì)兩國(guó)關(guān)系未來(lái)有了亟需的信心。

卡利迪普：讓我們談?wù)剝蓢?guó)關(guān)系的未來(lái)。2024年是美中友好關(guān)系的第45個(gè)年頭，期間并非一帆風(fēng)順。您如何看待中美關(guān)系的現(xiàn)狀？

張建敏：正如你所說(shuō)，今年是中美建交45周年，中美關(guān)系并非一帆風(fēng)順。但從總體上看，中美關(guān)系取得了重大進(jìn)展，為兩國(guó)人民帶來(lái)了許多實(shí)實(shí)在在的福祉，也為全世界的和平、穩(wěn)定與繁榮做出了貢獻(xiàn)。我常常回想起1972年尼克松總統(tǒng)與基辛格博士的破冰之旅。在此期間，尼克松總統(tǒng)還訪問(wèn)了我的家鄉(xiāng)—杭州，在那里進(jìn)行了《上海公報(bào)》的大量談判。事實(shí)上，《上海公報(bào)》是在杭州定稿并在上海簽署的。杭州離上海不是很遠(yuǎn)。

我想補(bǔ)充的是，尼克松總統(tǒng)訪問(wèn)杭州時(shí)，代表美國(guó)送給杭州一些禮物—五棵紅杉樹(shù)苗。在過(guò)去50多年里，這些小樹(shù)苗在杭州植物園和西湖邊，長(zhǎng)成了參天大樹(shù)，這見(jiàn)證了中美關(guān)系在過(guò)去幾十年中的演進(jìn)：1979年中美正式建交時(shí)，雙方幾乎沒(méi)有任何雙邊投資；但去年，雙邊投資規(guī)模達(dá)到2600億美元。1979年，我們的貿(mào)易額不到25億美元；而去年，這一數(shù)字已增至近7600億美元。

因此，我們的關(guān)系幾乎在各個(gè)方面都有緊密交織：文化交流、人員交流、經(jīng)濟(jì)交流。正如人言，中美現(xiàn)在作為兩大經(jīng)濟(jì)體，任何一方都無(wú)法忽視另一方。

我認(rèn)為，兩國(guó)關(guān)系的進(jìn)展是實(shí)實(shí)在在的。任何人帶著客觀公正的視角，都會(huì)認(rèn)識(shí)到這種關(guān)系的進(jìn)展對(duì)兩國(guó)乃至全世界的積極影響。

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世界上許多國(guó)家實(shí)際上也在關(guān)注中美關(guān)系的好壞，因?yàn)橹忻赖幕?dòng)之道也會(huì)影響到他們的生活和工作之道。這就是為什么人們?nèi)绱烁吲d地看到兩國(guó)領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人相互交談，并在許多重要問(wèn)題上達(dá)成重要共識(shí)。這次，兩國(guó)領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人實(shí)際上就展開(kāi)對(duì)話、進(jìn)行更多交流等重大議題達(dá)成了一致。

中國(guó)領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人特別希望，美方與中方共同努力，確保兩個(gè)大國(guó)能夠好好相處。中方的建議是，作為兩個(gè)大國(guó)，我們需要相互尊重、和平共處、合作共贏。我認(rèn)為，合作是唯一的出路，有利于我們兩國(guó)，也有利于全世界。

卡利迪普：國(guó)際貨幣基金組織IMF最近發(fā)布的報(bào)告稱(chēng)，兩國(guó)關(guān)系中出現(xiàn)的任何緊張情形，都將影響全球經(jīng)濟(jì)。您對(duì)此有何看法？

張建敏：沒(méi)錯(cuò)。這就是為什么人們?nèi)绱岁P(guān)注中美關(guān)系緊張情形的原因。一旦中美關(guān)系出現(xiàn)緊張局勢(shì)，這可能對(duì)全球經(jīng)濟(jì)增長(zhǎng)帶來(lái)2%的負(fù)面影響。十多年來(lái)，中國(guó)一直是世界經(jīng)濟(jì)增長(zhǎng)的關(guān)鍵引擎，每年為全球經(jīng)濟(jì)的增長(zhǎng)做出30%的貢獻(xiàn)。

因此，如果中國(guó)和美國(guó)這兩個(gè)主要經(jīng)濟(jì)體不合作，那么就會(huì)破壞供應(yīng)鏈和產(chǎn)業(yè)鏈的穩(wěn)定。此時(shí)此刻，我們需要這種合作來(lái)恢復(fù)全球經(jīng)濟(jì)增長(zhǎng)，緊張局勢(shì)實(shí)際上會(huì)給全人類(lèi)帶來(lái)災(zāi)難。

中國(guó)美國(guó)商會(huì)發(fā)布報(bào)告：半數(shù)在華美企將中國(guó)列為前三投資地圖自：中國(guó)美國(guó)商會(huì)

卡利迪普：盡管如此，美國(guó)人的擔(dān)憂依然存在。事實(shí)上，芝加哥外交事務(wù)委員會(huì)（Chicago Council of Foreign Affairs）去年10月進(jìn)行的一項(xiàng)民意調(diào)查顯示，60%的美國(guó)人認(rèn)為中國(guó)作為全球大國(guó)的崛起是對(duì)和平的威脅。您將如何消除這些擔(dān)憂？

張建敏：我認(rèn)為他們對(duì)中國(guó)文化、中國(guó)人民和中國(guó)政府的政策不夠了解。在某種程度上，這可能是因?yàn)樾鹿谝咔椋贿^(guò)去三年里，雙方的交流并不多，人們不再互相訪問(wèn)，因此造成了很多誤解，沒(méi)有足夠的機(jī)會(huì)向?qū)Ψ浇忉屪约旱恼鎸?shí)想法。在新冠疫情之前，我們每年有500萬(wàn)人次的互訪，中美之間每周有300多架直飛航班飛越太平洋。因此，我們還有很多工作要做，以彌補(bǔ)新冠疫情造成的損失。當(dāng)然，這其中也有其他因素在作祟。

在我看來(lái)，坦率地說(shuō)，我認(rèn)為這也與美國(guó)的所謂“政治正確”有很大關(guān)系。一些政客傾向于將一切問(wèn)題政治化。因此，他們散布這些恐懼，進(jìn)行無(wú)端和錯(cuò)誤的指責(zé)。這就是為什么中國(guó)國(guó)家主席新時(shí)代領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人最近在與美國(guó)總統(tǒng)拜登會(huì)談時(shí)說(shuō)，我們需要共同努力做幾件事，首先就是樹(shù)立正確認(rèn)知。美國(guó)應(yīng)將中國(guó)視為伙伴而非敵人，應(yīng)將中國(guó)的發(fā)展視為機(jī)遇而非威脅。我們非常樂(lè)意與世界其他國(guó)家分享增長(zhǎng)和繁榮帶來(lái)的機(jī)遇。

你提到了中國(guó)在可再生能源、新能源汽車(chē)、太陽(yáng)能等方面的進(jìn)步。在中國(guó)上海，連續(xù)六年的每年11月，我們都邀請(qǐng)來(lái)自世界各地的人們，包括加利福尼亞州、舊金山灣區(qū)委員會(huì)的人們，參加進(jìn)口博覽會(huì)，這是世界上首次。我們希望利用中國(guó)的發(fā)展，與世界其他國(guó)家共享繁榮和發(fā)展機(jī)遇。

卡利迪普：讓我們非常簡(jiǎn)短地談?wù)剚喬?jīng)合組織會(huì)議。首先，祝賀你組織參與了一次非常成功的亞太經(jīng)合組織會(huì)議。你提到了新時(shí)代領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人主席，他確定了與美國(guó)合作的五大支柱。APEC會(huì)議取得了什么樣的成果？五大支柱包括了民間交流，你如何看待自己在促進(jìn)這些合作支柱方面的作用？

張建敏：謝謝你提到五大支柱。我已經(jīng)提到了第一條，即共同樹(shù)立對(duì)彼此的正確認(rèn)知。接下來(lái)是共同有效管理分歧，共同推進(jìn)互利合作，共同承擔(dān)大國(guó)的國(guó)際責(zé)任，以及共同促進(jìn)人文交流。因此，我認(rèn)為這是一項(xiàng)繁重的工作，一項(xiàng)艱巨的任務(wù)，但我很樂(lè)意盡我所能，履行中國(guó)總領(lǐng)事的職責(zé)。

人文交流至關(guān)重要。新時(shí)代領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人主席在舊金山發(fā)表演講時(shí)，邀請(qǐng)5萬(wàn)名美國(guó)青年在未來(lái)5年間訪問(wèn)中國(guó)。我認(rèn)為，當(dāng)你能親眼看到并體驗(yàn)真實(shí)的中國(guó)，就能得出自己的結(jié)論，看看與新聞、報(bào)紙或政客對(duì)中國(guó)的描述是不同還是相符，這一點(diǎn)非常重要。

正如我所說(shuō)，中國(guó)與美國(guó)有大量貿(mào)易往來(lái)。貿(mào)易基本上是互惠互利的，為消費(fèi)者提供了更多選擇，創(chuàng)造了就業(yè)機(jī)會(huì)，提高了生活水平。因此，合作共贏確實(shí)有助于穩(wěn)定兩國(guó)關(guān)系。

當(dāng)今世界面臨著許多緊迫的挑戰(zhàn)：氣候變化、疫情、地緣政治緊張局勢(shì)等。中國(guó)和美國(guó)都是聯(lián)合國(guó)安理會(huì)常任理事國(guó)，兩國(guó)都應(yīng)發(fā)揮作用，讓世界變得更加美好。因此，我認(rèn)為五大支柱確實(shí)非常重要。現(xiàn)在的當(dāng)務(wù)之急是中美兩國(guó)共同努力，落實(shí)兩國(guó)總統(tǒng)達(dá)成的共識(shí)，而不是說(shuō)一套做一套，那就可能會(huì)導(dǎo)致非常令人沮喪的挫折。

卡利迪普：加州和加州華人有著悠久的歷史。事實(shí)上，有些人可能會(huì)說(shuō)，加州就是在中國(guó)勞工的支持下建立起來(lái)的。大多數(shù)人不知道的是，中國(guó)是加州最大的貿(mào)易伙伴。您提到紐森州長(zhǎng)訪華，能否向我們介紹一下這次訪問(wèn)的情況、成果以及意義？

張建敏：紐森州長(zhǎng)于10月率領(lǐng)氣候變化代表團(tuán)訪問(wèn)中國(guó)。他從香港開(kāi)始行程，在那里發(fā)表了關(guān)于氣候變化的演講；隨后，他訪問(wèn)了深圳，中國(guó)最早進(jìn)行改革開(kāi)放的城市之一。在那里，紐森州長(zhǎng)參觀了比亞迪的電動(dòng)汽車(chē)和電動(dòng)巴士。隨后，他前往廣州，與廣州簽署了氣候變化合作協(xié)議。順便提一下，加州與廣東、江蘇、內(nèi)蒙古、四川都是友好省州。他此行期間還訪問(wèn)了上海、江蘇。當(dāng)然，他還訪問(wèn)了北京。

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在北京，他還與許多同行舉行了會(huì)議，并召開(kāi)了氣候變化研討會(huì)。最重要的是，他與中國(guó)國(guó)家主席進(jìn)行了會(huì)晤。習(xí)主席在會(huì)見(jiàn)紐森省長(zhǎng)時(shí)說(shuō)，兩國(guó)關(guān)系的活力在地方。因此，中方歡迎紐森州長(zhǎng)來(lái)訪。中方愿加強(qiáng)地方政府層面的交流，即中美各省和各州之間，以及各縣和各市之間的交流。

美國(guó)加州州長(zhǎng)紐森去年10月訪華

我覺(jué)得兩國(guó)省州長(zhǎng)和市長(zhǎng)們關(guān)注的議題是一致的，因?yàn)樵谌粘９ぷ髦校麄儽仨毺幚硗瑯拥膯?wèn)題：就業(yè)、環(huán)境、食品、住房。因此，我認(rèn)為，如果我們能讓兩國(guó)省州長(zhǎng)和市長(zhǎng)們經(jīng)常見(jiàn)面，那么你剛才提到的那種誤解就會(huì)消失；也許不會(huì)完全消失，但不會(huì)阻礙推進(jìn)互利合作的努力，畢竟分歧總是存在的。

尼克松訪華時(shí)，中美兩國(guó)存在巨大差異，但我們通過(guò)求同存異走到了一起。我認(rèn)為今天仍是如此。

卡利迪普：就加州而言，中國(guó)1949年建國(guó)前，只有20%的人口受過(guò)教育，即四億人口中的一億，而現(xiàn)在這一比例接近百分之百。您認(rèn)為，加州系大學(xué)的教育體系如何在推動(dòng)教育交流中發(fā)揮作用？

張建敏：加州在教育領(lǐng)域?qū)嵙π酆瘛１热纾銈冇兴固垢４髮W(xué)、伯克利大學(xué)、加州大學(xué)戴維斯分校，還有許多其他優(yōu)秀的大學(xué)。當(dāng)我還是學(xué)生的時(shí)候，我的老師告訴我，如果你有一個(gè)蘋(píng)果，我有一個(gè)蘋(píng)果，我們交換蘋(píng)果，最后我們還是只有兩個(gè)蘋(píng)果；但如果你有一個(gè)想法，我有一個(gè)想法，我們交換想法，就可以有更多的想法。我認(rèn)為教育也是如此，人們走到一起，分享想法、交換意見(jiàn)、相互學(xué)習(xí)。中國(guó)學(xué)生也會(huì)賦能加州的課堂，因?yàn)樗麄儠?huì)帶來(lái)中國(guó)文化、中國(guó)思維方式、中國(guó)哲學(xué)，這都可以發(fā)揮作用，會(huì)給美國(guó)學(xué)生和其他國(guó)家的學(xué)生帶來(lái)靈感。同時(shí)，這里的中國(guó)學(xué)生也會(huì)從其他文化背景的同齡人身上汲取靈感。

因此，我們希望看到更多的教育交流。但遺憾的是，我覺(jué)得由于政治正確，我們?cè)谶@種交流中遇到了一些障礙。我們現(xiàn)在正在簡(jiǎn)化簽證申請(qǐng)程序，致力于成為交流友好型總領(lǐng)館，也就是說(shuō)，我們是隨時(shí)開(kāi)放的。如果你遇到了問(wèn)題，如果你需要幫助，我們隨叫隨到，辦公室隨時(shí)開(kāi)門(mén)，滿足你的需求，為你的簽證申請(qǐng)?zhí)峁┍憷５珜?duì)于在中國(guó)申請(qǐng)（赴美）簽證的人來(lái)說(shuō)，排隊(duì)時(shí)間太長(zhǎng)了。我們向公眾承諾，將在4個(gè)工作日內(nèi)為您提供簽證，且無(wú)需提前預(yù)約。我們希望美方也能做得更多，以滿足有意留學(xué)美國(guó)的學(xué)生的需求。

卡利迪普：讓我們談?wù)勊枷虢涣鳌：芏嗦?tīng)眾可能不知道，正如張大使剛才提到的，世界上最大的電動(dòng)汽車(chē)制造公司不是特斯拉，而是比亞迪。中國(guó)的獨(dú)特之處在于，它控制著從鈷礦開(kāi)采到機(jī)器人制造電動(dòng)汽車(chē)的整個(gè)供應(yīng)鏈。中國(guó)曾經(jīng)從加利福尼亞和美國(guó)學(xué)到了很多清潔能源的政策，這也是張大使最關(guān)注的話題之一。但現(xiàn)在情況發(fā)生了變化，學(xué)生變成了老師。加州能從中國(guó)的綠色政策中學(xué)到什么？

張建敏：我認(rèn)為這是一個(gè)相互學(xué)習(xí)的過(guò)程。每一方都會(huì)帶來(lái)自己獨(dú)特的優(yōu)勢(shì)。我認(rèn)為，如果我們有這種相互學(xué)習(xí)的積極態(tài)度，雙方都會(huì)受益。

我們一直非常積極地提出綠色能源要求。例如，在海南省，所有汽車(chē)都必須是零排放的。因此，我認(rèn)為在這一領(lǐng)域，相互學(xué)習(xí)的空間確實(shí)很大。

卡利迪普：現(xiàn)在讓我們來(lái)談?wù)剼夂蜃兓囊恍┯腥さ氖聦?shí)。1990年，中國(guó)農(nóng)村每百戶大約有兩臺(tái)冰箱，現(xiàn)在是90臺(tái)。1990年，中國(guó)每100戶家庭約有15臺(tái)空調(diào)，現(xiàn)在是150臺(tái)。這對(duì)電力消耗和溫室氣體排放帶來(lái)了重大影響。美國(guó)和中國(guó)排放的溫室氣體合計(jì)占世界總量的40%以上。我已經(jīng)談了很多關(guān)于可再生能源、太陽(yáng)能的問(wèn)題，但中國(guó)60%的電力來(lái)自煤電廠也是事實(shí)，而且隨著人口的不斷增長(zhǎng)，能源耗量還在增長(zhǎng)。

從你的角度來(lái)看，鑒于你本人對(duì)氣候變化問(wèn)題的關(guān)注，你認(rèn)為像中國(guó)這樣的國(guó)家如何平衡現(xiàn)代化的需求？顯然世界上其他國(guó)家會(huì)把中國(guó)視為處理這些問(wèn)題的榜樣。

張建敏：經(jīng)濟(jì)增長(zhǎng)很重要，因?yàn)樗苯雨P(guān)系到就業(yè)和人民的生活水平，但環(huán)境保護(hù)也很重要，而且越來(lái)越重要，如何平衡兩者確實(shí)是一項(xiàng)艱巨的工作。

就中國(guó)而言，我們已經(jīng)宣布了實(shí)現(xiàn)碳中和與碳達(dá)峰的目標(biāo)。實(shí)際上，和其他工業(yè)化國(guó)家相比，中國(guó)實(shí)現(xiàn)同樣目標(biāo)所需的時(shí)間要短。

我引以為豪的是中國(guó)在降低單位GDP能耗方面的成績(jī)。過(guò)去幾年，中國(guó)經(jīng)濟(jì)大幅增長(zhǎng)，但平均下來(lái)，在GDP年增長(zhǎng)6%的情況下，中國(guó)能源消耗年均只增長(zhǎng)約3%，這意味著我們正在以一種更加環(huán)保的方式增長(zhǎng)。因此，我認(rèn)為中國(guó)人民現(xiàn)在越來(lái)越意識(shí)到環(huán)境保護(hù)和氣候變化的必要性。

當(dāng)我回鄉(xiāng)探親和訪問(wèn)中國(guó)其他城市時(shí)，我注意到的最大變化之一就是環(huán)境，河里的水變得干凈多了。我小時(shí)候在一條小河邊長(zhǎng)大，這條河是大運(yùn)河的一支。那里離紡織廠很近，離造紙廠也很近，所以河水的顏色一直在變。當(dāng)時(shí)，我對(duì)環(huán)境保護(hù)了解不多。盡管河水很臭，但我看到河水變色，覺(jué)得還挺浪漫。現(xiàn)在，我回到家鄉(xiāng)，看到人們?cè)诤舆呩烎~(yú)。所以這真是一個(gè)巨大的變化。

資料圖：青海省海南藏族自治州生態(tài)光伏園圖源：IC photo

中國(guó)的全國(guó)人民代表大會(huì)將在每年3月舉行年度會(huì)議，而省一級(jí)人代會(huì)通常在春節(jié)前開(kāi)會(huì)，所以這幾天，你可以看到中國(guó)各省都在召開(kāi)省級(jí)人代會(huì)。近日，我在電視上看到福建省長(zhǎng)重申，如果他發(fā)現(xiàn)某個(gè)經(jīng)濟(jì)發(fā)展項(xiàng)目與環(huán)境保護(hù)需要之間存在矛盾，他會(huì)優(yōu)先考慮環(huán)保；如果他對(duì)該項(xiàng)目是否影響環(huán)境心里沒(méi)底，那么他寧可不要該項(xiàng)目，也要保持良好的環(huán)境。我認(rèn)為這反映了中國(guó)發(fā)展重點(diǎn)的變化、優(yōu)先次序的變化。因此，盡管中國(guó)在環(huán)境保護(hù)方面仍有許多工作要做，但我們現(xiàn)在比以往任何時(shí)候都更有決心取得更好的平衡。

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卡利迪普：我開(kāi)頭還提到了中國(guó)的人口問(wèn)題。去年，中國(guó)人口首次不增反減。您認(rèn)為這對(duì)中國(guó)經(jīng)濟(jì)有何影響？

張建敏：我有時(shí)會(huì)想想我兒子，他結(jié)婚后愿意生幾個(gè)孩子？我有兩個(gè)姐姐，而我妻子和我只有一個(gè)孩子。由于之前的政策，人口減少并不奇怪。現(xiàn)在，我們正在對(duì)政策進(jìn)行調(diào)整，鼓勵(lì)年輕夫婦多生，最好是兩娃，三個(gè)更好。

然而，年輕人生育率低并不是中國(guó)獨(dú)有的問(wèn)題。我理解，年輕人的生活節(jié)奏很快，他們的工作或生活壓力比我們或我父母那一代人更大。但是，盡管中國(guó)的人口在減少，我們?nèi)匀恍枰J(rèn)識(shí)到，中國(guó)受教育的人口、有效勞動(dòng)力和人才儲(chǔ)備并沒(méi)有真正減少那么多。因此，從總數(shù)量上看，中國(guó)人口確實(shí)在減少，但由于教育的進(jìn)步，中國(guó)人才仍在增長(zhǎng)。

當(dāng)然，中國(guó)也出現(xiàn)了人口老齡化的趨勢(shì)。例如，由于我和妻子在這里工作，我的妻妹作為一名教授也很忙，如何照顧我的岳母對(duì)我們來(lái)說(shuō)就是一項(xiàng)艱巨的任務(wù)；我想其他中國(guó)家庭可能也面臨著同樣的困境。我們需要更多的養(yǎng)老設(shè)施，需要進(jìn)一步發(fā)展中國(guó)的醫(yī)療服務(wù)，確保老有所養(yǎng)。我們也在學(xué)習(xí)其他國(guó)家的經(jīng)驗(yàn)，這也可以成為中美對(duì)話、分享經(jīng)驗(yàn)和相互學(xué)習(xí)的一個(gè)領(lǐng)域。這不僅是中國(guó)面臨的挑戰(zhàn)，也是許多其他國(guó)家面臨的挑戰(zhàn)。

卡利迪普：的確如此。事實(shí)上，張大使，最常被舉例的是日本，它在20世紀(jì)90年代也經(jīng)歷了類(lèi)似的過(guò)程。日本是否已經(jīng)度過(guò)了這一階段？你們從日本經(jīng)驗(yàn)中學(xué)到了什么，日本是如何解決這個(gè)問(wèn)題的，中國(guó)又可以如何解決這個(gè)問(wèn)題？

張建敏：正如我所說(shuō)，中國(guó)人口在老齡化。我剛才提到，我們需要更積極地發(fā)展養(yǎng)老設(shè)施，我們還需要做好社保，需要發(fā)展更多的保險(xiǎn)。中國(guó)有“老有所養(yǎng)”的理念。因此，這不僅是政府的一項(xiàng)重要任務(wù)，也是普通公民的一項(xiàng)重要任務(wù)。

卡利迪普：中國(guó)正在由世界制造業(yè)中心向創(chuàng)新中心轉(zhuǎn)型；有些人可能沒(méi)有意識(shí)到這一點(diǎn)，他們的刻板印象是，美國(guó)做什么，中國(guó)就抄什么。但現(xiàn)在似乎也出現(xiàn)了相反的情況。

我舉個(gè)例子，F(xiàn)acebook抄襲了微信：微信很早就推出了付費(fèi)功能，F(xiàn)acebook在五年后也抄襲了微信，但沒(méi)有人對(duì)此指手畫(huà)腳。大家都熟悉TikTok，幾年后Instagram推出了自己的TikTok。你提出了一個(gè)非常重要的觀點(diǎn)，即人口正在老齡化，但受教育的人口數(shù)量仍在增長(zhǎng)。他們?nèi)绾卧谕七M(jìn)中國(guó)創(chuàng)新更上一層樓中發(fā)揮作用？

張建敏：中國(guó)人為我們歷史上的創(chuàng)新而自豪：造紙技術(shù)、指南針、火藥等等。當(dāng)下，中國(guó)擁有40多萬(wàn)家高科技公司；中國(guó)的獨(dú)角獸企業(yè)數(shù)量位居世界第二，創(chuàng)新在中國(guó)變得越來(lái)越普遍。過(guò)去幾十年，中國(guó)經(jīng)濟(jì)持續(xù)增長(zhǎng)，由于改革開(kāi)放，我們?cè)羞^(guò)超兩位數(shù)的經(jīng)濟(jì)增速。而現(xiàn)在，經(jīng)濟(jì)規(guī)模已經(jīng)變得如此之大，我們正在由注重體量的增長(zhǎng)轉(zhuǎn)向注重質(zhì)量的增長(zhǎng)。因此，我們必須依靠創(chuàng)新。中國(guó)得益于對(duì)外交流和開(kāi)放。

同時(shí)，中國(guó)也在通過(guò)自己的創(chuàng)新為其他國(guó)家人民的福祉做出貢獻(xiàn)。中國(guó)對(duì)知識(shí)產(chǎn)權(quán)的保護(hù)并不是因?yàn)槠渌麌?guó)家希望我們這樣做，實(shí)際上是出于我們自身的利益，我們必須執(zhí)行知識(shí)產(chǎn)權(quán)法律法規(guī)，我們?cè)O(shè)立了知識(shí)產(chǎn)權(quán)法庭。中國(guó)的專(zhuān)利申請(qǐng)和版權(quán)保護(hù)案件的數(shù)量是非常鼓舞人心的。

加利福尼亞州在許多領(lǐng)域都是創(chuàng)新先鋒。因此，對(duì)于中國(guó)年輕人來(lái)說(shuō)，與美國(guó)同行一起工作，集思廣益，互相汲取靈感，總是互惠互利的。

卡利迪普：在APEC亞太經(jīng)合組織峰會(huì)上的一個(gè)話題是中國(guó)的“一帶一路”倡議。您能向大家解釋一下什么是“一帶一路”倡議嗎？

張建敏：“一帶一路”倡議中的“一帶”是中國(guó)與西部?jī)?nèi)陸國(guó)家的合作，此外還有“海上絲綢之路”。這一倡議已經(jīng)提出了10年，獲得了沿線國(guó)家的大力支持，大家共同創(chuàng)建了基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施項(xiàng)目和生產(chǎn)項(xiàng)目，創(chuàng)造了就業(yè)機(jī)會(huì)，提高了沿線人民的生活水平。我們希望將“一帶一路”打造為一項(xiàng)公共產(chǎn)品倡議，希望其他國(guó)家有機(jī)會(huì)借鑒中國(guó)的經(jīng)驗(yàn)。我認(rèn)為我們做得很好。

我們已經(jīng)就“一帶一路”倡議舉行了多次峰會(huì)。由于這一倡議向所有國(guó)家開(kāi)放，我們非常歡迎任何有興趣的國(guó)家加入我們。

巴基斯坦瓜達(dá)爾港圖自：視覺(jué)中國(guó)

卡利迪普：中國(guó)在“一帶一路”倡議中如何與加州的城市社區(qū)合作？其中是否有潛在的機(jī)會(huì)？

張建敏：我認(rèn)為智慧城市是一個(gè)非常好的合作議題，加州和中國(guó)城市管理部門(mén)可以共同研究如何建造更節(jié)能的公寓等。我認(rèn)為城市規(guī)劃是一個(gè)非常重要的話題，有很多內(nèi)容可以討論，比如公共交通。人工智能也是每天都會(huì)出現(xiàn)在頭條的話題，這也是各國(guó)人民、工程師和學(xué)生可以進(jìn)行更多討論的一個(gè)領(lǐng)域，因?yàn)槿斯ぶ悄馨l(fā)展得非常快，吸引了大量投資，具有革命性意義，肯定會(huì)影響我們生活的方方面面。

但如何對(duì)其進(jìn)行管理？對(duì)AI進(jìn)行適當(dāng)?shù)墓芾恚员阄覀兡軌蜃畲蠡恼孀饔茫⒎婪镀錆撛诘娘L(fēng)險(xiǎn)和危險(xiǎn)，我想這是每個(gè)人都在思考的問(wèn)題。因此，這也可以是大家能共同努力的議題。

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卡利迪普：接下來(lái)的問(wèn)題需要用到您的外交技巧了。美國(guó)大選在即，不同的候選人會(huì)帶來(lái)怎樣的變化？在您所處的位置，您將如何應(yīng)對(duì)這一局面？

張建敏：首先，這是美國(guó)的選舉，我們不干涉他國(guó)內(nèi)政。當(dāng)然，中美關(guān)系非常重要，影響到我們所有人。因此，我們當(dāng)然希望人們投票的是能有助于改善中美關(guān)系的人。讓我感到高興的是，回顧過(guò)去45年的中美關(guān)系，發(fā)展良好的中美關(guān)系是美國(guó)兩黨的共識(shí)。1972 年，是（共和黨）尼克松總統(tǒng)訪華打破了僵局，而正式建交的則是（民主黨）卡特總統(tǒng)。從那時(shí)起，來(lái)自兩黨的歷任總統(tǒng)都與中國(guó)領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人進(jìn)行過(guò)交流。

兩國(guó)建立穩(wěn)定的合作關(guān)系符合兩國(guó)人民和全世界人民的利益。我認(rèn)為全世界都期待被選出的總統(tǒng)承擔(dān)起責(zé)任，努力改善兩國(guó)關(guān)系。

卡利迪普：您提到紐森州長(zhǎng)對(duì)中國(guó)的訪問(wèn)，但這是建立在之前共和黨州長(zhǎng)訪華的基礎(chǔ)之上的。大家提出的一個(gè)問(wèn)題是，您對(duì)加州與中國(guó)下一階段的發(fā)展有何建議？

張建敏：我們有很多工作。比如，讓我們從學(xué)生交往開(kāi)始。習(xí)主席邀請(qǐng)五萬(wàn)名美國(guó)青年在未來(lái)五年內(nèi)訪問(wèn)中國(guó)。我們相信，在這五萬(wàn)人中，加利福尼亞州將占很大比例。我們也希望加州和中國(guó)之間能有更多的直飛航班。舊金山灣區(qū)委員會(huì)每年都代表加州的企業(yè)在上海國(guó)際進(jìn)口博覽會(huì)運(yùn)營(yíng)加州館。因此，我們希望舊金山灣區(qū)委員會(huì)也能做得更多，向中國(guó)介紹更多的美國(guó)產(chǎn)品和服務(wù)。

未來(lái)五年，中國(guó)將從世界各地進(jìn)口總額達(dá)十七萬(wàn)億美元的商品和服務(wù)。像中國(guó)這樣一個(gè)不斷增長(zhǎng)的經(jīng)濟(jì)體的市場(chǎng)需求是巨大的，而隨著生活水平的提高，中國(guó)人民也希望享受更多的納帕谷葡萄酒、更多的新奇士橙子。因此，我認(rèn)為我們可以擴(kuò)大貿(mào)易，在氣候變化方面推進(jìn)更多的合作，共同應(yīng)對(duì)這些緊迫的全球性挑戰(zhàn)。

卡利迪普：加州對(duì)朝鮮軍事實(shí)力的擔(dān)憂與日俱增，加州人民認(rèn)為他們就在朝鮮導(dǎo)彈射程之內(nèi)。考慮到這對(duì)世界和平的影響，中國(guó)在確保安全方面能發(fā)揮什么樣的作用，有何責(zé)任？

張建敏：朝鮮是一個(gè)主權(quán)國(guó)家，為自己的行為負(fù)責(zé)。中國(guó)和朝鮮是近鄰，我們有著正常的友誼與合作，關(guān)系非常密切。因此，我們希望他們的經(jīng)濟(jì)能夠增長(zhǎng)，我們希望他們的人民能夠享受美好的生活。

與此同時(shí)，由于朝鮮與一些國(guó)家之間的緊張關(guān)系，不時(shí)會(huì)出現(xiàn)事件和緊張局勢(shì)。但對(duì)中國(guó)來(lái)說(shuō)，我們始終呼吁和平解決爭(zhēng)端，我們始終呼吁有關(guān)各方進(jìn)行對(duì)話。我參與過(guò)六方會(huì)談，從一開(kāi)始是四方會(huì)談時(shí)就曾參與。我們希望朝鮮半島實(shí)現(xiàn)永久和平與穩(wěn)定，但這需要每一個(gè)利益相關(guān)方的切實(shí)努力。因此，我們希望美國(guó)也能在這方面發(fā)揮更具建設(shè)性的作用，以穩(wěn)定局勢(shì)。

卡利迪普：對(duì)話開(kāi)始時(shí)，你提到了人工智能的興起，我們談到了假新聞，你則提到了（媒體）渠道和政治環(huán)境，以及政治環(huán)境如何影響我們?cè)诿绹?guó)獲得的新聞。如果你是一名在場(chǎng)觀眾，你會(huì)看哪些信源來(lái)獲取關(guān)于中國(guó)的準(zhǔn)確信息？

張建敏：我當(dāng)然會(huì)看中國(guó)自己的新聞。我們有許多優(yōu)秀的新聞機(jī)構(gòu)，如新華社、中國(guó)日?qǐng)?bào)、人民日?qǐng)?bào)、CGTN、中央電視臺(tái)，它們現(xiàn)在都非常國(guó)際化。我也會(huì)參考一些可信的新聞機(jī)構(gòu)。但最重要的是，你需要根據(jù)事實(shí)情況來(lái)核實(shí)你所讀到的內(nèi)容。有時(shí)你會(huì)看到假新聞，我們?cè)贑GTN有一個(gè)節(jié)目叫做“頭條直擊”，會(huì)揭露謬誤。有些媒體會(huì)使用過(guò)時(shí)的圖片，有些會(huì)用來(lái)自一個(gè)國(guó)家的圖片來(lái)談?wù)摿硪粋€(gè)國(guó)家發(fā)生的事情，這非常具有誤導(dǎo)性。我認(rèn)為，人工智能被指責(zé)為“深偽技術(shù)”的罪魁禍?zhǔn)祝@對(duì)我們所有人來(lái)說(shuō)都是一個(gè)挑戰(zhàn)。因此，如何共同努力，確保以負(fù)責(zé)任的方式使用人工智能，不讓人工智能誤導(dǎo)人們，是需要非常認(rèn)真考慮的問(wèn)題。

卡利迪普：灣區(qū)的許多人不習(xí)慣看到外交官。這里有不少華裔。您如何鼓勵(lì)人們沿著您的足跡進(jìn)入外交領(lǐng)域？

張建敏：作為一名外交官，為國(guó)效力是我的榮幸。在舊金山，每個(gè)人都以金門(mén)大橋?yàn)闃s。外交實(shí)際上就是搭建橋梁，而不是設(shè)置壁壘。我們確實(shí)能解決問(wèn)題，但我們是通過(guò)搭建橋梁、避免沖突、作出必要的妥協(xié)、增進(jìn)相互理解來(lái)解決問(wèn)題的。因此，我認(rèn)為這是一份崇高的工作，沒(méi)有什么比代表自己的國(guó)家更崇高的榮譽(yù)了，不僅為自己同胞的利益服務(wù)，還為地球上全人類(lèi)的共同利益服務(wù)。

如果你不從事外交工作，有時(shí)當(dāng)我們談?wù)撌澜绾推椒€(wěn)定等宏大概念時(shí)，聽(tīng)起來(lái)是那么遙遠(yuǎn)和空洞，但如果你多年從事外交工作，那么你確實(shí)會(huì)感到自己肩負(fù)著沉重的責(zé)任，你的所作所為或多或少影響著世界的未來(lái)。我曾為領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人峰會(huì)擔(dān)任過(guò)翻譯。當(dāng)我回首往事時(shí)，我總是覺(jué)得，作為促進(jìn)兩國(guó)和兩國(guó)人民之間相互理解的橋梁，非常榮幸。

中美交流基金會(huì)組織今年首批美國(guó)大學(xué)生代表團(tuán)訪華圖自：中美交流基金會(huì)

其實(shí)，我回國(guó)后，經(jīng)常會(huì)被我們的人事部門(mén)邀請(qǐng)去跟大學(xué)生們交流，跟他們分享我的故事，以及年輕人擁有一個(gè)通過(guò)外交來(lái)報(bào)效祖國(guó)、服務(wù)人類(lèi)的夢(mèng)想是多么重要。

我們需要更多的人加入。畢竟，無(wú)論人工智能如何進(jìn)步，人們?nèi)匀恍枰揽咳祟?lèi)的智慧，我們?nèi)匀恍枰鎸?duì)面的對(duì)話來(lái)解決問(wèn)題，在互利互惠的事情上取得進(jìn)展。

卡利迪普：最后一個(gè)問(wèn)題，這將非常考驗(yàn)?zāi)愕耐饨患记桑号f金山動(dòng)物園怎么樣才能獲得幾只大熊貓？你說(shuō)過(guò)要搭建橋梁，要取得成果。

張建敏：習(xí)主席談到了熊貓是如何受到美國(guó)人民，尤其是孩子們的喜愛(ài)。中國(guó)外交部長(zhǎng)王毅已經(jīng)宣布，熊貓將回到加州。我參觀過(guò)舊金山動(dòng)物園，那是一個(gè)非常漂亮的動(dòng)物園，靠近海洋海灘。讓我們拭目以待。我知道這里的市長(zhǎng)、州長(zhǎng)和副州長(zhǎng)都非常希望看到熊貓回到加州。我也很期待看到這一切的發(fā)生。

卡利迪普：太好了。我們希望大使兌現(xiàn)承諾。

張建敏：我們共同努力。

卡利迪普：讓我們感謝大使的光臨，感謝他的慷慨，為我們提供了一場(chǎng)精彩的龍年盛宴。

以下為英文原文：

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Kalidip Choudhury: China has always played an outsize role in the history of the world. Ever since its civilization began on the banks of the Huanghe River, China has been capturing the imagination as few countries have. But the rise of modern China is especially astonishing, it is without parallel in modern history. More than 800 million people have been lifted out of poverty, 75% of the world's global poor. In 1990,75% of China lived in rural areas. Now, 75% are urban.

And here's another astonishing number for you: between 2010 and 2013, more concrete was poured in China than in the entire 20th century of the United States. That's a mind boggling number. But it's not just concrete and steel alone. Just when California is backing away from a subsidy on renewable energy, China is now moving ahead. 50% of the world's electrical cars are either manufactured or consumed in China, 50% of the world's solar and wind energy is manufactured and consumed in China.

But there are challenges ahead. China is emerging from a long covid lockdown and the questions remain, what impact will that have on its economy? And for the first time, China's population is contracting rather than expanding. It is an aging population. How will that affect China? And therefore, how will those ripples affect the rest of the world, affect the United States, and affect us here in California?

And so we are very pleased and honored that Ambassador Zhang Jianmin has agreed to join us onstage and present us his views on how China plans to address those challenges. Ambassador Zhang, welcome to the Commonwealth Club of America. Please tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got to this position.

Zhang Jianmin: Thank you, Khalidip, for your warm welcome. And thank you, members of Commonwealth Club, both here on site and online, for your interest in China and Chinese culture. Let me start by extending to you the best wishes for the Chinese New Year, the year of the Dragon. It's a very auspicious year and hope it will bring all of us the best of luck and good fortune.

As far as myself is concerned, I've been in this job as Chinese Consul-General Based in San Francisco for one year and eight months now. And before that, I served as Chinese ambassador to the Czech Republic for three and a half years. I joined the Chinese Foreign Service in the year 1990. My first visit to this country was in 1994. I also served in the Chinese Embassy in DC from 2009 to 2011.

In my job working in the headquarters of the Chinese Foreign Ministry, I've had the good fortune of serving many important visits and discussions. So I hope I could put all these experience into good use and do a good job in promoting more mutual understanding and friendship between China and US as a whole, and in particular between China and California.

Kalidip Choudhury: Have there been any surprises? What have you learned about California, what have you learned about the West Coast during your time here?

Zhang Jianmin: I feel I'm very lucky because in the west coast, it has a longer history of exchanges and cooperation with China. It recently hosted APEC, and has such a wonderful, hard-working Chinese community, which made important contributions to prosperity of this part of America. Ever since I arrived, I've been very encouraged by the cooperation exchanges between California and China. For instance, we are about to celebrate the year of the Dragon, the Chinese Spring Festival. And in September 2022, Governor Newson signed into law that Spring Festival will be honored as a public holiday, being the first state to designate Spring Festival as a public holiday. And you mentioned the pandemic earlier in your opening remarks. Governor Newson was also the first US governor to visit China in the wake of the pandemic, with a focus on climate change. And I think the visit was a great success.

The west coast has served as the host city for two APECs. The first APEC took place in Seattle in 1993, and last year, San Francisco played very successful host to APEC; Chinese presidents came. The two presidents had a very successful summit, which gave people much needed confidence in the future of our relationship.

Kalidip Choudhury: Let us talk about the future of your relationship. 2024 marks the 45th year of friendship between the United States and China. It has not been without its challenges. How do you perceive the current state of affairs with China, with the United States?

Zhang Jianmin: This year marks, as you said, the 45th anniversary of China US relationship. It has not been without challenges, ups and downs. But viewed as a whole, the relationship has made significant headway. It has brought lots of tangible benefits to the people of the two countries. It has also contributed to peace, stability and prosperity throughout the world. I often recall the ice breaking visit by President Nixon in 1972 together with Dr Kissinger. President Nixon also visited my hometown, Hangzhou, where much of the negotiation on Shanghai Communique was done. It was finished actually in Hangzhou, but signed in Shanghai, Hangzhou is not very far from Shanghai.

What I want to say is that when President Nixon visited Hangzhou, he gave Hangzhou some gifts on behalf of the United States. The gifts were five planted saplings of Redwood trees. Over the past five decades and more, the tiny saplings have grown into tall trees in the Botanic Garden and in the parks around the West Lake. I think this illustrates the evolution of China US relationship over the past decades. When we established formal diplomatic ties in 1979, there was hardly any mutual investment. But last year, two-way investment amounted to $260 billion. In 1979, our trade was less than $2.5 billion. And last year, the figure already increased to nearly $760 billion.

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So our relationship has been intertwined in almost every aspect: cultural exchanges, people to people exchanges, economic exchanges. As someone told me, we are two major economies now. Neither can ignore the other side.

I think the progress of the relationship has been real. Anyone who has an objective view and fair-minded people would recognize the positive impacts of the progress of our relationship, to the two countries and to the whole world.

Many countries around the world actually are also concerned about the health of China US relationship. Because the way the two countries interact would also affect their way of life and work. So that's the reason why people were so happy to see our two presidents talking to each other, reaching important consensus on so many important issues. This time, the two presidents actually agreed on having dialogue, having more exchanges are important subjects.

The Chinese president, in particular, wanted the US side to work together with China to make sure that the two major countries can get along well with each other. The Chinese proposal was and continues to be that as two major countries, we need to show mutual respect, we need to live together in peace and we need to engage in win-win cooperation. I think cooperation is the only way forward, for the benefit of our two countries and in the interest of the whole world.

Kalidip Choudhury: As you know, the IMF recently released a report that said any strains in the relationship will affect the global economy. Your thoughts on that?

Zhang Jianmin: Exactly. That's also the reason why people are so concerned about tension in the relationship. Once there is tension in China US relationship, it could affect, I think, two percentage points of economic growth. For more than a decade, China has been a key engine of world economic growth. We have contributed to 30% of economic growth globally every year. So if China and the United States, as the two leading economies, are not cooperating with each other. then it would disrupt the stability in supply chain, in industrial chain. So just at the time when we need such cooperation to restore economic growth around the world, tension would actually bring about disaster for the whole humanity.

Kalidip Choudhury: But nevertheless, a fear persists here in America. And in fact, a poll conducted in last October by the Chicago Council of Foreign Affairs that said 60% of Americans feel that China's rise as a global power is a threat to peace. How do you in your role address those concerns?

Zhang Jianmin: I think they don't understand Chinese culture, Chinese people, Chinese government's policy well enough. In part, it's perhaps because of the covid pandemic; over the past three years, there were not much exchanges. People stopped visiting each other. So this has given rise to lots of mutual misunderstanding. People didn't have enough opportunity to explain to each other what they really think. Before the pandemic, we had 5 million mutual visits every year, more than 300 direct flights per week across the Pacific between China and United States. So we have a lot of catch up work to do to make up for the losses caused by the pandemic, but there are also other factors at play.

To me, forgive my bluntness, I think this has also got a lot to do with political correctness in this country. Some politicians tend to politicize everything. So they're spreading those kind of fear, and unwarranted and wrong accusations. That's reason why when Chinese President Xi Jinping talked to President Joe Biden recently, he said that we need to work together to do several things. The very first one is to develop a correct perception of each other. China should be viewed as a partner rather than an enemy, and China's development should be viewed as opportunity rather than a threat. We are more than happy to share with the rest of the world the opportunity of growth and prosperity.

You mentioned China's progress in renewable energy, in zero emission cars, in solar energy, etc. For six years in a row in Shanghai, every November, China would invite people around the world, including from California, the Bay Area Council, to take part in the first ever Import expo, I don't think other countries have ever done something like that. We want to take advantage of China's growth to share in the prosperity and opportunity of growth with the rest of the world.

Kalidip Choudhury: Let us touch on APEC very briefly, because first of all, congratulations to you for organizing a very successful APEC. And you mentioned President Xi Jinping. He had identified five pillars of cooperation with the United States. How did the APEC conference conclude? As for the five pillars of cooperation, which also includes people to people contact, how do you see your role in facilitating those pillars of cooperation?

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Zhang Jianmin: Yes, thank you for mentioning the five pillars. I already mentioned the first one, that is to jointly develop a right perception of each other. Then it's jointly manage the differences in an effective way, jointly advance mutually beneficial cooperation, jointly shoulder international responsibilities as major countries, and last but not least, jointly promote culture and people to people exchanges. So for me, I think this is a lot of work, a very demanding task, but I'm happy to do my best to fulfill my duty as the Chinese Consul-general.

People to people exchanges is of utmost importance. President Xi Jinping, in his speech during his stay in San Francisco extended an invitation to 50,000 American youths to visit China in the next five years. I think when you see China with your own eyes, it could give you exposure to the real China and you could make your own conclusion, how does your own observation differ from or match with the information you get from watching news, or reading some of the newspapers, or hearing the remarks from some politicians? So it's very important.

And China is, as I said, doing a lot of trade with the United States. And trade basically is mutually beneficial, giving consumers more choice, creates jobs, improves living standards. So win-win cooperation is really something that can help stabilize the relationship.

And today's world is confronted with so many urgent challenges: climate change, pandemic, geopolitical tensions. Both China and United States are permanent members of the UN Security Council. Both have a role to play in making the world a better place for all. So I think the five pillars are really very important. The priority now is for both China and United States, to work in concert to implement what the two presidents have agreed, rather than saying one thing but doing another. And then it could lead to very frustrating setbacks.

Kalidip Choudhury: California and the Chinese people have a very long history. In fact, some might argue that the California was built on the back of Chinese labor. What most people don't know is that China is California's largest trading partner. You mentioned that Governor Newsom had been to China. Could you tell us a little bit about that visit and what the outcomes were and what it means to the audience.

Zhang Jianmin: Governor Newson led climate change delegation to China in October. And he started his trip from Hong Kong, where he gave a talk on climate change. Then he visited Shenzhen, one of the first cities that opened up and conducted reform economically. There, Governor Newson visited the electric car, electric bus by BYD. He then went to Guangzhou where he signed agreement and climate change cooperation with Guangzhou. By the way, California enjoys sister state province relationship with Guangdong, with Jiangsu, with Inner Mongolia, with Sichuan. And he also visited Shanghai, visited Jiangsu. And he, of course, he visited Beijing.

In Beijing, he also had meetings with many counterparts to have a seminar on climate change. Most important of all, he had a meeting with Chinese President. President Xi in his meeting with Governor Newson said that the vigor and vitality of our relationship comes from sub-national exchanges. So China welcomes the visit by Governor Newson. And China is prepared to strengthen sub-national exchanges, meaning between the provinces and the states in the United States and between the counties and the cities.

I feel that the governors and mayors speak alike. Because in their everyday work, they have to deal with the same issue: jobs, environment, food, housing. So I think if we can enable the governors, the mayors of the two countries to meet each other often, then the kind of misunderstanding that you mentioned earlier could disappear; maybe not totally disappear, but will not stand in the way of efforts to advance mutually beneficial cooperation, because differences are always there.

When Nixon visits China, China and US were so different, but we were able to come together by finding common ground. I think this remains true today.

Kalidip Choudhury: Quick question, which is relevant to California, before the revolution in 1949, 20% of China's population was educated, one hundred million out of four hundred million, now it's close to a hundred percent. How can California's university's educational system play a role in helping with that educational exchange?

Zhang Jianmin: California is very strong in education. For instance, you have Stanford, you have Berkeley, you have UC Davis, you have many other wonderful universities. When I was a student, my teacher told me that, if you have an apple, I have an apple, we exchange, then still you have only two apples. If you have an idea, I have an idea, then we can have, you know, more ideas. So I think this is the same with education. If people can come together to share ideas, to compare notes and learn from each other, the Chinese students would also enrich the classroom here, because they will bring with them Chinese culture, Chinese way of thinking, Chinese philosophy, which might also prove useful, and give American students and students from other countries inspiration. At the same time, the Chinese students here would also draw inspiration from their peers from other cultures.

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So we want to see more robust educational exchanges. But unfortunately, I feel that because of the political correctness, we have come across some obstacles in such exchanges. For one thing, we are simplifying visa application procedures. My office committed to be exchange friendly, meaning we are 24/7. You know, if you have an issue, if you request assistance, then we would open our office to meet your need and facilitate your visa application. But for the Chinese applicants in Beijing and other Chinese cities, the queue is too long. And now we promise to the public that will be able to give you visa in 4 working days, and no need for prior appointments. And we hope that the US side can also do more to meet the needs of the aspiring students.

Kalidip Choudhury: Let us talk about the exchange of ideas, what many people in our audience might not be aware, as Ambassador Zhang just mentioned, the world's largest electrical car manufacturing company is not Tesla, it's BYD. And China is unique is that it controls the entire supply chain from cobalt mining to robots manufacturing electrical cars. It is also true that once upon a time, China learned, which is one of the ambassador’s favorite subjects, green policy; it learned a lot about green policy from California and from the United States. But now the table has switched. The student has now become the teacher. What can California learn from China and green policy?

Zhang Jianmin: I think that it's a two-way learning process. Each will bring to the table its unique strength. And I think if we have this kind of positive learning from each other, this kind of positive attitude to learn from each other, both sides will benefit.

We have been very aggressive in imposing requirements on a green energy. So for instance, in Hainan province, all the cars have to be without emission. So I think in this field, there's really a lot of room for mutual learning.

Kalidip Choudhury: Let us now talk about climate change and interesting facts. In 1990, there were about two refrigerators for every hundred households in rural China, and that number is now 90. In 1990, there were about 15 air conditioners for every 100 households in China. That number is now hundred and fifty. This has a severe effect on electricity consumption and on emission of greenhouse gases. The United States and China together emits more than 40% of the world's greenhouse gases. I've talked a lot about renewable energy, solar energy, but it is also true that 60% of China's electricity comes from coal plants and that is growing as it meets the demand of its ever growing population.

How do you see from your perspective, given your own passionate cause in climate change, how do you see a country like China balance the needs of a modernizing population? Because obviously the rest of the world will see China as an example in how China is dealing with these issues.

Zhang Jianmin: Economic growth is important, because it has a direct bearing on jobs and people's living standards. But environmental Protection is also important and increasingly so. How to balance is really a demanding job.

As far as China's concerned, we've announced our goals to achieve carbon neutrality and the carbon peak. Actually China spends less time than what it would take other industrialized countries to achieve the same target.

What I'm proud of is China's track record in reducing per unit GDP energy consumption. For the past years, China's economy has grown significantly. But for on average, for 6% of GDP growth, the energy consumption actually grew at only above 3%, meaning we are growing in a more environmental friendly way. So I think the Chinese people are now more and more aware of the needs of environmental protection and climate change.

When I go back to visit my hometown and visit other Chinese cities, actually one of the biggest change I've noticed is the environment. The water in the river has become much cleaner. When I grew up, when I was a little boy, I grew up near a small river, a tributary of the Grand Canal. It was very near to a textile mill and very close to papermaking factory. So the color of the water in the river kept changing. At that time, you know, I didn't know much about environmental protection. Even though it smelled, I thought it was quite romantic to see the color change. But now when I go back, I saw people fishing, you know, in the same river. So this is really a very big change.

For the time being, China's national parliament will have its annual session in March. At the provincial level, the provincial legislatures usually meet before the Spring Festival. So in these days, you can see that various provinces are having their provincial parliamentary session. And I tuned in TV one day and I heard one governor from Fujian reiterating their commitment, that if he finds there are contradiction between a certain project of economic development and the need of environmental protection, he would give more priority to environment. So if he couldn't feel comfortable that the project will not hurt the environment, then he would rather not have the project and keep the environment in good shape. I think this reflects the change of focus, change of priority. So even though China still have a lot of work to do progressing in its environmental Protection endeavor, we are now more determined than ever to strike a better balance.

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Kalidip Choudhury: I also started by talking about China's population. For the first time in recorded history, China's population is shrinking rather than expanding. How do you feel that this has an effect on China's economy?

Zhang Jianmin: I sometimes think of my son, how many children would he be willing to have after he gets married? You know, I have two elder sisters, my wife and I，we have only one child. So it's not surprising that the population is shrinking because of the policy over the past years. Now we are introducing readjustment to the policy, and we are encouraging the young couples to have more than just one, better two, three even better.

However, it's not an issue exclusive to China that the young people are not that enthusiastic in having many children. I understand that they lead a fast-paced life, and they are working or living under more pressure than we or my parent's generation. But still, even though China's population is shrinking, we need to recognize that in terms of its educated population, it's an effective workforce, it's a pool of talents, it's not really shrinking that much. So number-wise it’s shrinking, but talent wise, it's still growing thanks to progress in education.

But of course, we are seeing the aging population. And for instance, because my wife and I are working here, and my sister-in-law, as a professor, is also very busy, how to take care of our mother-in-law is a demanding task for us; I think other Chinese households probably face the same dilemma. We need to develop more elderly care facilities. We need to further develop China's medical service so that when people age, they can still be well taken care of. I think we are also learning from the experience of other countries. And this can also be an area where China and the US can have dialogue, share experience and learn from each other. It's not just a challenge for China, it's also a challenge for many other economies.

Kalidip Choudhury: It is. In fact, Ambassador Zhang, the example that is most usually thrown out is the example of Japan, which in the 1990s went through a similar process. And the question remain, has Japan advanced beyond that stage? So what have you learned from your studying of history is how Japan addresses that and how China can address that.

Zhang Jianmin: As I said, we see the population aging. I mentioned earlier that we need to develop more aggressively the elderly care facilities, and we also need to do a better job in Social security arrangements to develop more insurance. I think we in China have a philosophy of taking care of the elderly. So it's a very important task for not just the government but also ordinary citizens.

Kalidip Choudhury: As China is making the transition from being the manufacturing center of the world to perhaps the center of innovation, I think there are some that might not be aware of this, because there's a feeling that whatever the United States does, China copies. But now it seems that the reverse is also happening. And I'll cite a couple of examples, that Facebook copied Wechat. Wechat very early on had a payment option for a session and Facebook copied that five years afterwards and no one raised an eyebrow. Everyone is familiar with TikTok, and obviously a few years later, Instagram came up with its own module for TikTok. You've raised a very good point on that the population may be aging, but more and more educated people are coming to the fore. How do they play in this innovative to drag China into the next century?

Zhang Jianmin: People in China are proud of their innovation in the past, paper making technology, the compass, the fireworks, etc. And today, China is home to more than 400,000 high tech companies. China has the second largest number of unicorns. So innovation is getting more and more prevalent in China. China enjoyed sustained economic growth over the past decades. We used to have double digit growth as a result of opening up and reform. And now the size of the economy has become already so big that we are making a shift from quantity focused growth to a quality focused growth. So we have to rely on innovation. China has benefited from exchanges and opening up with outside world.

And the same time, China is also making contribution to the well-being of people in other countries through our own innovation. Talking about intellectual property rights protection, it's not because other countries want us to do this, it's actually out of our own interests, we have to enforce intellectual property rights, laws and regulations. We have set up tribunals on intellectual property rights. So if you look at the number of application of patents, copyrights protection cases, the number is very encouraging.

Here, California, is a pioneer in innovation in a so many areas. So it's always mutually beneficial for the Chinese young people in particular to work together with their American counterparts and have brainstorming and draw inspiration from each other.

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Kalidip Choudhury: A subject that has come up, also at the APEC conference, is your belt and road initiative. Could you explain to the audience what the belt and road Initiative is?

Zhang Jianmin: The Belt and Road initiative is about China's cooperation with the countries from the hinterland to the west, so that's the belt part, and also on the sea, we have the maritime Silk Road. So this initiative has been there for 10 years, and it has actually drawn lots of support from countries along the routes. And together, they have created infrastructure projects, production projects, which create jobs and lift the living standards of the people along the routes. We want this Belt and Road Initiative to be a public good initiative. And we want to give the opportunity to other countries to use China's experience for reference. And I think we're doing a good job.

We have had several summit meetings about the Belt and Road initiative. And since this initiative is open to all, for anyone who is interested in joining, they are more than welcome to join us.

Kalidip Choudhury: How can China work in its belt and Road Initiative with perhaps some of the urban communities in California? Is there a potential opportunity for that?

Zhang Jianmin: I think smart city would be a very good topic where the urban dwellers and the Chinese city management can work together on how to build more energy saving apartments, for example. I think city planning is a very important subject and there's so much to discuss, public transport, for instance. One subject that is in headline every day is artificial intelligence. I think this is also an area where people, engineers, students in different countries can have more discussion because artificial intelligence is growing very fast. It's attracting so much investment and it's revolutionary and it will definitely affect every aspect of our lives. But how can it be governed? How can they be properly managed so that we can maximize the positive impacts and prevent potential risks and dangers. I think this is on everybody's mind. So this could also be a subject where people can work together on.

Kalidip Choudhury: I will now depend a lot on your diplomatic skills to answer the next question. Elections in the United States are coming up very shortly. How does the paths change with different candidates? How do you, in your position, address that?

Zhang Jianmin: First of all, for China, it's your election and we don't interfere in other countries’ domestic politics. Having said that, China US relationship is so important that it affects us all. So we certainly hope that people vote for someone who would contribute to a better China US relationship. And I think what makes me happy is that if you look back on the past 45 years of China US relationship, it has been the consensus of both parties to develop a good China US relationship. Nixon broke ice by visiting China in 1972. And it was the President Carter who formally established diplomatic ties. And since then, you've had presidents from both parties having exchanges with their Chinese counterparts.

It's in the interests of people of the two countries and the people of the whole world for our two countries to have a stable and cooperative relationship. And I think the whole world expects responsibility from elected officials to work towards a better relationship.

Kalidip Choudhury: You mentioned Governor Newsom's visit to China, but that was built on previous visits starting from Republican governors who have visited China to build up this. One of the questions from the audience is, what is your suggestion for the next stage of development between California and China?

Zhang Jianmin: I think we have a lot to do. For instance, let's start with the student exchanges. President Xi invites 50,000 American young people to visit China in the next five years. And we believe California could account fo many out of the 50,000. And we also hope that there will be more direct flights between California and China. Bay Area Council, every year, runs the California Pavilion on behalf of the entities or businesses from California in the International Import Expo in Shanghai. So we hope that it can also do more to introduce more American products and services to China. In the next five years, China will import a total of seventeen trillion dollars of goods and services from the rest of the world. So the market demand from a growing economy like China's is huge, and the Chinese people, as they improve their living standards, also want to enjoy more Napa Valley wine, more sunkist orange. So I think we can do more trade, and we can have more cooperation on climate change and work together on those pressing global challenges together.

Kalidip Choudhury: There's an increasing concern in California about North Korea's military might and people in California especially feel that they are within range of the missile program that North Korea has. What is China's role, what is China's responsibility in ensuring the safety, given how that affects peace in the world?

Zhang Jianmin: North Korea is a sovereign country. So it's responsible for its own conduct. China and the DPRK are close neighbors and we have normal friendship and cooperation, very close ties. So we want their economy to grow, and we want their people to enjoy a good life.

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